Project AveoSS

AveoSS_8 · Post by **AveoSS_8** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:39 am

Ok so im going to be doing a build on my aveo with the c20get.
Im pretty new with these cars and dont really know too much about them and what not.
So i do have a couple of questions.
The ecu of that is with the eninge is damaged so what would i need to do to get around with that.

The only other thing is supporting mods that i would need to do.
Like full exhaust...i plan on in the end at having around 220-250whp
so should i just do a full 3 inch from the get go??

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:17 am

AveoSS_8 wrote:i plan on in the end at having around 220-250whp
so should i just do a full 3 inch from the get go??

Nahh, bigger than you need. What do you plan on having for CATS? resonators? and mufflers? I think 2.5" turbo-back would be enough. If you really feel the need a 3" down pipe to 2.5" exhaust would be a nice touch. Several people that have been doing exhaust work on n/a and turbo cars told me I really didn't even need 3" with the up to 300whp goal I'm shooting for.

AveoSS_8 · Post by **AveoSS_8** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:21 am

hmmmm whats the advantage of the 3" down pipe and 2.5 exhaust.
and i dont know about cats and resonators and all that yet...i do know i dont want it to be extremely loud so.

gse_turbo · Post by **gse_turbo** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:03 pm

just for a recap, the ECU is good, it's that loom that the scrap yard cut when pulling the motor.

you can use the 'pin-outs' from the C20GET and your Aveo to adapt your factory loom.

garrett

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:38 pm

AveoSS_8 wrote:hmmmm whats the advantage of the 3" down pipe and 2.5 exhaust.
and i dont know about cats and resonators and all that yet...i do know i dont want it to be extremely loud so.

It's going to be a bit more open then a full 2.5" back exhaust. Having a small exhaust on a turbo setup won't hurt power (unless it's really small) it just hurts spool up time. At least that's my understanding

AveoSS_8 · Post by **AveoSS_8** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:02 pm

hmmm so gse the loom situation that is something that a shop could probably do? im not really good with electrical crap lol.

AveoSS_8 · Post by **AveoSS_8** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:03 pm

oh and chris or someone if you guys know more about the exhaust size that would be great if i could get some suggestions. If the straight 2.5 will help it spool better and be the same performance as the 3" header and 2.5" exhuast i might as well go with straight 2.5.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:09 pm

Given you admit to being new to cars do you have a local performance shop who can help install everything?

Do you have a budget in mind yet?

The cheapest method is the "do it yourself" method but unless you know what your doing it's fairly easy to get in trouble and do things wrong.

Even disassembling the suspesion is hard, and you have to have a very decent amount of tools.... impact wrench ideally, torque wrenches (different sizes for different torque).... a full set of metric sockets, wrenches, extensions..... wiring diagram for both the C20GET and Aveo.

Our progress with project Super Swift might lead you to belive that this is a quick thing.... but in reality the physical engine swap is the easy part.

The hard part is interfacing all the electronics, adapting lines from the C20GET to the Aveo, figuring out the details for the accessories, modifying the length of the throttle cable and a whole pile of other stuff.

All of us have a fairly strong background in automotive.... so it's not too hard for us.... especially since I'm an electronics engineering tech. so wiring is easy for me.

gse_turbo · Post by **gse_turbo** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:12 pm

with the loom, a shop should be able to take the ECU plug-in and wire it to the Aveo loom. just for clarity, you have a 1.5 with port injection right (you can see the injectors)!?

as for the exhaust, because you are using a T25 or maybe a T28 2.5" is more then big enough. people who go up to 3" or bigger are the ones that have T3's or bigger and potentially pushing 15lbs+.

garrett

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:24 pm

On to the question of exhaust.... at one time there was a great post talking about exhaust sizing...lots of arguing... it was great

2.5" will work just fine..... if you went up to 3" then I would suggest heat wrap for the first five feet of the exhaust to ensure the flow is good.

Basicly it goes like this.....

General rule of thumb is that bigger is better.... the bigger the pipe the less resistance to flow occurs.

Think of blowing through a tiny 1/8" straw.... you have to create lots of pressure to push the air out.

Now try that with a big 1/2" straw and you will find you can blow the air through very easily.

One thing to take into account is velocity..... basicly how fast the exhaust is flowing through the pipe.

2" --> smaller diameter --> higher velocity but more flow restriction
4" --> larger diameter --> Lower velocity but less flow restriction

So again with the straws.... the air coming out of the 1/8" straw will be very fast (high velocity) like a jet of air

The 1/2" straw on the other hand is slow compared to the 1/8".... you barely feel the air moving through.

So......to get to my point... The slower the velocity the higher the decrease in temperature of the exhaust..... which makes the exhaust denser.... which is bad.

Basicly if you had a 6" exhaust it would take forever for it to flow out of the turbo and out the end of the car.....and during this time it's cooling down and creating restriction due to density change.

But if you have a 2" exhaust there is some pressure after the turbo (due to slight restriction) but the exhaust shoots through to the tailpipe very quick and does not cool down.

Basicly there are a whole pile of issues to explain.... but I'm not sure if I can explain them in a way you would understand unless you've taken a Thermodynamics course.

With heat wrap it insulates the pipe..... so you can go with a nice large exhaust but you don't have to worry about it cooling down.... so it's the best of both worlds.

You want fast hot exhaust flowing out with the lowest restriction possible.

Hopefully you understand where I'm coming from here..... you could even run a 6" exhaust if you double wrapped the pipe all the way from the front to the back.

But realisticly it won't make much difference.

Especially with a turbo engine..... if you have a restriction and it makes slightly less power.... just crank up the boost another couple of PSI and that will more than make up for the loss.

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:17 am

Quick question... do you plan on putting anything else in the exhaust stream? I ask because 2.5" straight flow would be fine... adding something like a muffler (baffled, not straight-through) or a cat (real matrix, not high-flow jokers) may make you want to push a higher pipe size to keep pressure down.

Also, me making an ass of myself on my 2nd post here...
http://www.daewootech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=13066

plus some high-level explaining on the flow science

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:26 am

As far as wiring... I still say that using the C20GET loom/ECU is the simplest install.

The wiring on the Aveo is really nice.... basicly the ECU and all the required wiring are in the engine bay.... in fact there is a single plug just down from the master brake cylinder on the firewall that connects the interior wiring to everything in the engine bay.

Once you have the two diagrams and know which colors go where it's just a matter of separating everything out and making the connections.

I have the diagrams for both.... so when the time comes I don't mind helping out a bit.

If you know of a good shop that is experienced in engine swaps ( can be Honda or Nissan swaps...... a swap is a swap.... similar requirements for all engine swaps ) you might want to start talking to them now.

At first they might not want to do it because it's out of their normal vehicle types.... but if you tell them you will give them all the diagrams and parts they need they might be willing to give it a shot.

Some shops will only do things if they know they can bang it out in a day or two.... other shops will take their time and your money and the progress will be slow.

What you need is a shop that is half way between.... not in a rush... but not sitting around eating McDonnalds Hamburgers on your dime.

AveoSS_8 · Post by **AveoSS_8** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:12 am

yeah i know the engine swapping would be easy for me i have a lot of friends that have done engine swaps and if i had the mounts and all that that that would be no problem...even the other small things with that like the cables or w/e you were talking about....my real issue is the electrical and i dont want to mess it up.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:00 pm

If you have other friends that have done engine swaps then they should be able to help you with the electrical..... and I don't mind helping here and there.

Basicly once you have the loom and diagrams for the Aveo and C20GET (which I have) it's just a matter of disassembling the loom and marking which wire is for what.

Some of the more complicated items may be the spedometer signal.

the C20GET has an input of 4000 pulses per mile..... of hand I don't know what the Aveo is but if it's not 4000 pulses per mile it will throw off your speedometer reading.

Having said that there are products which allow you to take one input and change it to another.

I could even make one of these for you..... it's not a complex circuit.... I could probably market it for something in the range of $75..... not sure what other companies charge.... but it's probably more than that.

Hmmmm...... other than the speedometer.... there probably isn't much else that could cause a problem.

I just found out today that the Megasquirt doesn't have a speedometer output.... so odds are I will have to make something for project Super Swift.... and if I'm making one.... well.... I might as well make a half dozen to cut down on the cost.

Chris

AveoSS_8 · Post by **AveoSS_8** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:04 pm

when i was talking to some other people about this swap they were talking about the fuel delivery being off and what not....i didnt think that should be a problem really.
but if that has to be done with the speedometer i will probably get that from you before i do the swap so i can make sure that the shop has it.

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