TEC Dilemma

[RobertCooper245]

Hello, I am a newbie here at Daewootech, and I'm glad to be welcomed by everyone here.

I am new to Daewoos and received my first, a Nubira CDX wagon, as a gift no more than a month ago. When I got her, she had only 62,491 miles.

While perusing the service manual, I noticed that Daewoo listed the timing belt replacement at every 60,000 miles. Seeing as how I had no service records with the car, and therefore, no way of knowing when the timing belt was changed, I decided to go ahead and get it changed. I brought the new belt and water pump to an independent mechanic who has done work on our company vehicles for a while now.

After the job was done, I immediately noticed that the car was "jerking" when it was stopped at a light or idling. It wasn't doing that before I got the timing belt changed. I went back to the shop and asked them to recheck the timing of the engine and make sure the belt was properly replaced. He said that the timing marks were aligned and everything was done correctly, but he didn't know what was causing the engine to idle so roughly. His guess was that the EGR might be going bad, but seeing as how the timing belt service and recheck was costing me a considerable amount of money, I wanted to wait until I could confirm that it was the EGR and not something simple like a hidden vacuum hose leak.

I looked around the Internet and found a few members talking about the same symptoms that my car was suffering through, and that's when I found the Technical Service Bulletin that told about the Tooth Error Correction relearn procedure.

I took a copy of the bulletin to my mechanic and asked him to perform the procedure. An hour later, he said that for some reason, the scan tool they had could not perform the procedure on my car. DIscouraged, I asked other dealers to see if they can perform the procedure. One said he could do it, but when he tried he failed as well. I also tried to call the dealers listed on Daewoo's website, and shockingly, they said they could not perform the procedure either.

I'm nearing my wit's end on this problem. I don't know what damage this problem is causing to my car and what can happen if I continue to drive it in this condition. On the other hand, I can't find a single mechanic who can do a TEC procedure on my car, and the constant jerking my car is doing is driving me nearer to insanity.

What can I do? Is there any technicians in the Hampton Roads area of Virginia that can do this procedure? Or is my best bet saving my pennies for my own scan tool and hoping the worst doesn't happen to my car before then?

[Puddle31]

First of all, welcome aboard. You came to the right place. Unfortunately I am not the right person to help you but I guarantee that one of these guys will be able to hook you up. These guys know everything about these cars and there are some top-notched mechanics here. In the mean time, until one of them sees your post and gives you your answer, I would recommend searchigng around this site using the search function. There is a pretty good chance you will find your answer already here. Some of the timing belt topics have pictures included so you can see what the process is. Some may describe the symptom you have described. Bottom line is one of these guys will be able to help you. They just have to read your entry. I dont' recall you giving the year of your car or the engine (if there were options). Also, is teh engine throwing any codes or is the CEL light on? Someone will ask if there are any to help diagnose. If it ran good before, and the belt was changed, it should be running good now. it doesn't take much to throw those things off though. Hang in there, these guys will help you. Good luck.

[RobertCooper245]

First of all, welcome aboard. You came to the right place. Unfortunately I am not the right person to help you but I guarantee that one of these guys will be able to hook you up. These guys know everything about these cars and there are some top-notched mechanics here. In the mean time, until one of them sees your post and gives you your answer, I would recommend searchigng around this site using the search function. There is a pretty good chance you will find your answer already here. Some of the timing belt topics have pictures included so you can see what the process is. Some may describe the symptom you have described. Bottom line is one of these guys will be able to help you. They just have to read your entry. I dont' recall you giving the year of your car or the engine (if there were options). Also, is teh engine throwing any codes or is the CEL light on? Someone will ask if there are any to help diagnose. If it ran good before, and the belt was changed, it should be running good now. it doesn't take much to throw those things off though. Hang in there, these guys will help you. Good luck.

Thanks. It's a 2000 Daewoo Nubira CDX. I think the engine is a 2.0L D-TEC Inline 4-cylinder engine. The check engine light hasn't come on at all since the belt was changed, which makes me wonder a bit.

[gse_turbo]

Hello, Welcome, hopefully we can get you back on the road as you were before.

first off, you did the right thing by getting the belt changed. these cars will go forever as long as the scheduled services are done.

I wish I could afford to travel around to help the members here out. working on these cars i pretty easy compared to some.

my first questions, are you mechanically inclined at all? do you have a fair set of metric tools? do you have a comfortable place to work and to you feel comfortable working on a car if we walk you through it? is there a Harbor Freight Tools, Seals and other tool stores near you? ...Harbor Freight being the most important for a beginner.

I would not be surprised at all if the timing marks were not set right. or, for some reason, they took the cam gears off and didn't put them back correctly. no sensors were changed so the learn process isn't important in this case.

let me know if you are interested in or willing to do the work on your car and I can outline what I would do to test and find the problem. unfortunately, these days it is hard to find a mechanic that can be trusted or that even cares about what they do. the best answers are gonna come from working on your own vehicles.

the hardest part of working on these cars is having a garage or comfortable place to do the work. the tools are basic, most of the car can be dismantled with a 10mm and 13mm wrench. but if you don't feel comfortable doing the work then hopefully something we suggest can help a local mechanic to get everything sorted out.

Garrett

[RobertCooper245]

Hello, Welcome, hopefully we can get you back on the road as you were before.

first off, you did the right thing by getting the belt changed. these cars will go forever as long as the scheduled services are done.

I wish I could afford to travel around to help the members here out. working on these cars i pretty easy compared to some.

my first questions, are you mechanically inclined at all? do you have a fair set of metric tools? do you have a comfortable place to work and to you feel comfortable working on a car if we walk you through it? is there a Harbor Freight Tools, Seals and other tool stores near you? ...Harbor Freight being the most important for a beginner.

I would not be surprised at all if the timing marks were not set right. or, for some reason, they took the cam gears off and didn't put them back correctly. no sensors were changed so the learn process isn't important in this case.

let me know if you are interested in or willing to do the work on your car and I can outline what I would do to test and find the problem. unfortunately, these days it is hard to find a mechanic that can be trusted or that even cares about what they do. the best answers are gonna come from working on your own vehicles.

the hardest part of working on these cars is having a garage or comfortable place to do the work. the tools are basic, most of the car can be dismantled with a 10mm and 13mm wrench. but if you don't feel comfortable doing the work then hopefully something we suggest can help a local mechanic to get everything sorted out.

Garrett

Thanks, Garrett. I am somewhat mechanically inclined, but I'm not comfortable enough in my own skills to tackle a timing belt change. That, and between my two jobs I can't squeeze much time to fix my car. All I asked the mechanic to do is to change the timing belt and water pump, which I supplied.

It's interesting that you said the relearn procedure isn't important since the sensors weren't changed. It makes me wonder if the mechanics did do the job correctly, and are just covering up. It also makes me wonder what the TEC procedure is for, if it's not for a routine timing belt change. The whole procedure is new and foreign to me, since I've never owned a car that required "relearning" the timing belt.

I'm thinking of going to another mechanic and having them install a brand new timing belt, and see if that fixes the problem. This may seem drastic and expensive, but if it fixes the problem and gives me peace of mind, I don't mind paying for it. Any suggestions on a good mechanic?

[gse_turbo]

it's important the that the cam timing marks are straight up in the air and line up with marks on the plastic valve cover. MAKE SURE the mechanic knows that the marks do not face each other like other cars.

incase the other shop took off the cam gears for no reason, make sure the exhaust gear has the cam sensor trigger. it's easy to spot, it takes up half the circumference of the gear on the inside.

after that, if there is any doubt about how the other shop did the belt, make sure you have a compression test done. if it was done wrong, it is likely that valves may be damaged. depending on how far off the it may or may not have happened.

[RobertCooper245]

it's important the that the cam timing marks are straight up in the air and line up with marks on the plastic valve cover. MAKE SURE the mechanic knows that the marks do not face each other like other cars.

incase the other shop took off the cam gears for no reason, make sure the exhaust gear has the cam sensor trigger. it's easy to spot, it takes up half the circumference of the gear on the inside.

after that, if there is any doubt about how the other shop did the belt, make sure you have a compression test done. if it was done wrong, it is likely that valves may be damaged. depending on how far off the it may or may not have happened.

Oi...

Damn, this is annoying, and frustrating. I'm guessing replacing the valves is no easy job, eh?

[RobertCooper245]

UPDATE! I took my car to the Car Shop of VB earlier today. Guess what they found?

They found the exhaust cam was off by ONE TOOTH. They said the timing belt was good and didn't need to do a compression check, which was a relief.
After that, my car was running like a champ again. Thank you so much! You have no idea how grateful I am!

(P.S. I took my findings to the first shop that did the timing belt, and they were not happy.)

[gse_turbo]

very good to hear!

at the very least you have found yourself a new shop to have your work done that seams like they are more able to help you and to do good work.

as for the old shop, I wonder if there is anything you can do to get your money back on all of or part of their service.

[Puddle31]

that is great news Robert! Youa re fortunate you found a good shop, AND that it was only off 1 tooth because like the others have said, there could have been some damage. Glad it worked out for you. You certainly did the right thing changing the belt, because there's a better than good chance it was not changed before and you were on borrowed time at more than 60K miles.

[RobertCooper245]

Thanks!

I went back to the first shop that did my timing belt, and while the shop owner was embarrassed that a mistake such as this one passed by their technicians, he did entitle me to a reimbursement of the second shop's bill, which was nice.

But, even though it didn't need a TEC procedure, it does bother me that no shop around me can do it for Daewoos. What is the TEC test for, and how do you get it done if you can't find a shop to do it?

[gse_turbo]

I have a Lanos, on these it's a process you can do with an ignition key cycle. I don't know what it would be for your model but I'm sure someone has found it before.

[Puddle31]

the fact that the first shop's owner did the stand up thing by reimbursing the second visit may redeem them. They may be eager to help you with your next issue (provided it's not a timing belt change!). Since they did that i MIGHT go back to them. As far as the procedure, I think GSE Turbo is right. someone on here has it listed somewhere. it is a specific sequence of engaging the ignition in different positions. do a search and you should find it. If i get a minute I'll try to find it and post the link in here for you.

[Puddle31]

Here you go Robert: This is copied and pasted from another topic. The information is courtesy of Daniel, one of the pros on here. I just re-copied it and put it here for you:
Bulletin No.: TSB-008-01
Model(s): All
Date: December 19, 2001
VIN Range: All
Description: TEC Test Procedure
Group: Engine
Reference: Scan 100 Operator Manual
Prod. Dates: All

Whenever an Engine Control Module (ECM), Powertrain Control Module (PCM) or battery is disconnected/replaced, the TEC Test Procedure (referred to as the "Crankshaft Position Variation Learning Procedure" in the Service Manual) must be performed using the Scan 100 Scan Tool. This procedure electronically aligns the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor to the Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor to correct for variations in Timing Belt length, camshaft and crankshaft pulleys, etc. Failure to perform the TEC Test procedure can cause poor driveability and a variety of Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) including P1336 - 58x Crank Tooth Not Learned to be stored in diagnostic memory along with Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) illumination.

Whenever any component that may affect the relationship between the Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor and the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor is removed or replaced, the TEC Test Procedure must be performed. Items that may affect the "learned" alignment include the CMP Sensor, the CKP Sensor, the ECM/PCM, the Timing Belt, Cylinder Head, Short Block, Camshaft Pulley(s), Engine Assembly, etc.

A number of seemingly unrelated DTCs and/or driveability concerns have also resulted from vehicles where the TEC Test was not properly completed after battery disconnect/ replacement or ECM/PCM replacement. Various misfire DTCs, rough idle concerns, intermittent stalling, or reports of MIL flashing with no DTCs set are common. If you are diagnosing a vehicle with any of these concerns, please complete the TEC Test and re-check the vehicle before continuing with your diagnosis.

A new Engine Control Module (ECM) or Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is programmed with the latest version of the vehicle program for the specific model and does not need to be "Programmed" using the Scan 100 Scan Tool. However, it is still necessary to connect the Scan 100 Scan Tool to the vehicle to complete the installation process. After the ECM/PCM is properly installed and the battery reconnected, please perform the following procedure:

TEC Test Procedure:

Note: Before beginning the TEC Test Procedure, ensure that the engine temperature is above 149°F (65°C).

1. Connect the Scan 100 Scan Tool to the Data-Link Connector (DLC) and press the "Power" button.

2. From the Main Menu, choose "Reprogramming" (selection 6).

Note: The Scan 100 may indicate that the ABS Fuse (Lanos F-19, Nubira F-15) be removed on 1998-99 Lanos and Nubira models equipped with Delphi ABS.

3. Choose "Miscellaneous" (selection 3).

4. Replacement ECM/PCM Only - Choose "VIN Input" (selection 9). When indicated, enter "password" 0-0-0-0, then press "ESC" to go to the VIN Input screen. Scroll left-to-right to choose the character and scroll up-and-down to change each character. Press "ENTER" when the VIN is correct to save the VIN and return to the "Miscellaneous" screen.

5. Choose TEC Test (selection. Start the engine when prompted and press "ENTER" to continue. When prompted, with the shift selector in the "Park" position and holding the brake pedal down firmly with your left foot, depress the throttle fully and allow the engine to reach fuel cut at 4,000 rpm. Hold the throttle at this point (approximately 2-3 seconds) until the rpm begins to drop and "TEC Test Normal (Good)" is displayed, then release the throttle.

Note: The Scan 100 will only allow one (1) TEC Test to be completed per key cycle.