Am i Down shifting wrong?

AznRice2Nice · Post by **AznRice2Nice** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:42 pm

When i down shift I brake slightly at the same time release the clutch..... someone informed me that it may be my downshifting that is causing the clutch to burn out.

-GP

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:34 pm

the point is to match the car speed with the engine speed given the gear you are on so braking the car or revving the engine is not a wrong thing to do... the only wrong thing is non matched car and engine speed.

MMamdouh

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:52 pm

saying your cruising at 50mph and you want to downshift into third.. before you realese the clutch to put it into third gear kick up the revs by pressing the gas real quick to try to match what the rpms will be when you put it in third gear (probably 4.3k or something)

AcingTeam · Post by **AcingTeam** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:27 pm

kinkyllama wrote:saying your cruising at 50mph and you want to downshift into third.. before you realese the clutch to put it into third gear kick up the revs by pressing the gas real quick to try to match what the rpms will be when you put it in third gear (probably 4.3k or something)

I never do that... I just down shift and release the clutch gently. Never had any problems.

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:46 pm

when i do downshift as AcingTeam i get a bit of engine braking and also that will affect the clutch a little but when i do the downshift as Kinkyllama i get a really smooth shift.

i use Acing's method if i am braking hard before a corner or so to help me stop faster and i use Kinky's method if i am going straight and had to slow a bit for one reason or another and i got to accelerate fast again.

MMamdouh

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:00 pm

The method i use will save your tranmssion. I know a guy that was going through 4 transmission a year (he raced) once he learned heel-and-toe (matching revs) he went through about 1 1/2. Yes racing is a little more extream but even if you do it every time on the street you should get your clutch to last twice as long.

On the street it feels like not matching the revs when you downshift slows you down faster but i have to wounder about that. If not matching the revs slowed you down faster than i dont think racers (pros that have more money) would be using heel-and-toe

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:13 pm

maybe the racers don't want to put too much strain on their trannys during the race plus they got big ass brakes that can stop a train so they don't need the help of engine braking.

also note that heavy engine braking with a rear wheel drive car can cause you a spin just like using the hand brakes, this will be much more apparent if the car got a big ass engine.

MMamdouh

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:18 pm

well... based on the clutch problems you've had...

i would take kinky's advice. the clutch can handle gripping far better than it can slipping. neither is healthy... but you gotta do what you gotta do. there is definitely a balance when feathering the clutch to downshift or dumping it. since you've already had major clutch problems... you might as well try the other style and see if that helps out...

also note that heavy engine braking with a rear wheel drive car can cause you a spin just like using the hand brakes, this will be much more apparent if the car got a big ass engine.

half the fun of those kinda cars is the breaking loose :twisted:

tango · Post by **tango** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:39 pm

I've been drivign stick-shifts since I was 13 years old and one thing I've learnt is that clutches are to be handled like switches as often as possible. That means drag them as little as you can. That saidt, no matter what you do, ultimately clutches must wear every time they are used. Now is revving the engine before you release the pedal better than just letting th clutch go? it depends on what you are looking for. If you want immediate results from your downshift (eg in a panic stop) then you don't rev the engine and just brake with the right foot and clutch with the left at the same time. If you want a nice smoth coast to a stoplight then you add a bit of rev. Neither way is necessarily more hurtful. What does hurt however is OVER revving the engine for that downshift. That can cause the car to actually accelerate a bit if you aren't careful. Another thing we tend to do is ride the clutch too much when lifting off. That hurts.

Frankly I got tired of all that sh!t years ago. Get an automatic and be done with it. My Cielo is a TH-125C 3 speed and I've NEVER regretted buying it. I recently did the unthinkable and bought a 1993 Suzuki Swift GTi (5 speed manual)...needless to say it's currently for sale. I HATE stick shifts and I HATE Japanese cars! DAMN!!

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:05 pm

I tend to leave my foot on an extra second after i shift

So ive been just doing clutchless shifts, although its really hard to do it perfectly w/o the clutch when downshifting so i usually use the clutch to downshift

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:07 am

i am doing something else to the clutch in order to torture it... while parallel parking i get the car in reverse and let the clutch pedal about 1/3 and use the brakes stop/go during parking... kinda like what you do with an auto.

i know this hurts the clutch due to the continous friction but it is far more controllable during parking.

i also noticed that when you shift at high RPM's with no poking for the throttle the engine braking effect is very minimal... i guess you can go past the rev limiter if you downshift at too high RPM.. say if you are at 5000 RPM at 4th then you downshifted to third... i think you can go past the rev limiter and hurt your engine... right?

MMamdouh

tango · Post by **tango** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:03 am

In a panic situation your left foot will be firmly planted on the brake so when you do downshift the brakes will ahve already pulled the wheels to a slower speed, the engine woudl have started to throttle back. When the gear is selected and then the clutch released, the wheels will bring the engine revs back up but seeign that they are still decreasing in speed (brakes still on) it shouldn't get back as high to go past the rev-limiter. If you have a steady foot on the gas and then downshift to 3rd liek that then you get what you are looking for. Potentially expensive sounds.

It takes a reasonable amount of experience with any car to be able to match revs, engine speed and pedals to be able to be smooth. Like I said...get an auto and forget it. Let the damn car do ALL the work. Why half-step??

KnightWalace · Post by **KnightWalace** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:27 am

tango wrote:
It takes a reasonable amount of experience with any car to be able to match revs, engine speed and pedals to be able to be smooth. Like I said...get an auto and forget it. Let the damn car do ALL the work. Why half-step??

Eh, the 1/2-step is for kiddies.. i prefer the two step.

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:45 am

Ive been over 7k rpms when downshift

Its hard on the track.. i cant look at my rpms and you sure as hell cant hear your car or feel it when your racing... I havnt done that in along time... i usuauly onyl get above the rev limiter on the first couple laps when i dont know that track well

AcingTeam · Post by **AcingTeam** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:01 am

Get an auto?? I refuse to get an auto till I'm 70!! lol