ubuyau wrote:The second smooth graph look interesting, a very linear power and torque curves - no sharp boost rise. Probably feels like a bigger displacement engine now. It'd be a totally different car to drive
It'd be interesting to see the curve a little lower in the rev range.
Congrats - solid numbers!!!!
--Tim
Thanks! Yah I would like to see a full pull from say 1500 - 6000 rpm (theres no power in this motor after 6k) The peak numbers are great, but I would like to see it hold those peak numbers higher into the rev range instead of dropping down slightly.
Glad to hear you got it running.... but I'd expect more horsepower out of the engine considering the high compression ratio.
I expected a number of 195hp at the wheels for 7psi with conservative tuning.
Too bad that dyno sheet isn't from a dynojet with wideband so that we could see the whole RPM band plus the air fuel ratio.
If you ask me..... you might be wise to take your car over to a dynojet equiped shop and get a baseline run (usually 3 or 4 pulls) with wideband.
This way you can compare the numbers from the shop where you got your car modified to another independant shop.
I'm not saying that they did a bad job, but perhaps they were a little on the conservative side and tried to keep the A/F lower than it needs to be.
As well..... if you had the Dynojet files.... I could change the plot to see if anything was slipping.
I have to think that 175whp is really pushing it on the stock clutch... perhaps it started to slip at 4800RPM and once it started slipping.... it wouldn't push more than 150whp to the wheels.
Honestly.... that engine should be making peak power at roughly 5600RPM.... no way down at 4800RPM.
Dig up my dyno graphs.... it should follow the same trend.
If you compare the two.... you would see that the HP curve should have kept moving upwards.... and based upon my estimates based upon my dyno curve... I'd estimate you should have seen a little over 200whp.
Even the torque numbers are odd..... if you said 200whp and 191lbft of torque.... I'd say that was consistent with this engine type.
But 175hp and 191lbft makes no sense what so ever.
The more I think about it.... the more I think either the clutch was slipping or your tires were slipping...... something is odd.
Last edited by PrecisionBoost on Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2010 BMW 335D
1994 Opel Calibra 4X4 turbo ( C20LET 2.0L Turbo )
2002 Daewoo lanos
chris@PrecisionBoost wrote:Glad to hear you got it running.... but I'd expect more horsepower out of the engine considering the high compression ratio.
I expected a number of 195hp at the wheels for 7psi with conservative tuning.
Too bad that dyno sheet isn't from a dynojet with wideband so that we could see the whole RPM band plus the air fuel ratio.
If you ask me..... you might be wise to take your car over to a dynojet equiped shop and get a baseline run (usually 3 or 4 pulls) with wideband.
This way you can compare the numbers from the shop where you got your car modified to another independant shop.
I'm not saying that they did a bad job, but perhaps they were a little on the conservative side and tried to keep the A/F lower than it needs to be.
As well..... if you had the Dynojet files.... I could change the plot to see if anything was slipping.
I have to think that 175whp is really pushing it on the stock clutch... perhaps it started to slip at 4800RPM and once it started slipping.... it wouldn't push more than 150whp to the wheels.
Honestly.... that engine should be making peak power at roughly 5600RPM.... no way down at 4800RPM.
Dig up my dyno graphs.... it should follow the same trend.
If you compare the two.... you would see that the HP curve should have kept moving upwards.... and based upon my estimates based upon my dyno curve... I'd estimate you should have seen a little over 200whp.
Even the torque numbers are odd..... if you said 200whp and 191lbft of torque.... I'd say that was consistent with this engine type.
But 150hp and 191lbft makes no sense what so ever.
The more I think about it.... the more I think either the clutch was slipping or your tires were slipping...... something is odd.
I talked to one of my friends who's quite experienced with tuning (just opened his own shop) and he is pretty convinced that its a timing issue. I know the clutch wasn't slipping because as I've been driving it now, the clutch still seems rock solid at this power and I have yet to smell "the burning clutch smell" lol. Also I don't have wheelspin at that rpm so I'm not slipping. He is convinced that after 4800rpm the timing backs off way too much causing the drop in power. Met up with him tonight and based on the fact of my manifold and turbo glowing red hot after driving for a short period he is sure the timing needs adjustment. I hope I don't melt off my exhaust valves before I get this fixed haha.
I knew something was odd when I saw that power and torque curve went down at 4800 because the motor pulled well to 6k before the turbo.
yewah you need to get that fixed asap. if your turbo and eshaust mani are glowing red yout timing is way off. im soooo jealouse of you, is your car an auto or stick???
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daewoomofo wrote:yewah you need to get that fixed asap. if your turbo and eshaust mani are glowing red yout timing is way off. im soooo jealouse of you, is your car an auto or stick???
Ya I never knew too little timing could be bad until now. Its 5spd manual.
Glowing red hot usually goes hand in hand with lean mixture.
Did your shop put in one range "cooler" spark plugs?
Even if the timing is off it will loose power.... but it shouldn't run hot.
I highly doubt that the ignition needs to be advanced further... usually with boost you have to retard it to start and then Advance it forwards a few degrees at a time during tuning (since this is a N/A ECU.... as opposed to a turbo ECU )
If you don't have a pyrometer or wideband A/F I would suggest you do so as soon as possible.
With the EGT and A/F you can ensure that your engine doesn't blow.
2010 BMW 335D
1994 Opel Calibra 4X4 turbo ( C20LET 2.0L Turbo )
2002 Daewoo lanos
chris@PrecisionBoost wrote:Glowing red hot usually goes hand in hand with lean mixture.
Did your shop put in one range "cooler" spark plugs?
Even if the timing is off it will loose power.... but it shouldn't run hot.
I highly doubt that the ignition needs to be advanced further... usually with boost you have to retard it to start and then Advance it forwards a few degrees at a time during tuning (since this is a N/A ECU.... as opposed to a turbo ECU )
If you don't have a pyrometer or wideband A/F I would suggest you do so as soon as possible.
With the EGT and A/F you can ensure that your engine doesn't blow.
Hey Chris
When they tuned it on the dyno they had a wideband and the AF ratio was good - in the mid 11s. They did a little street test too and the AF stayed good. They did put colder plugs - NGK bkr7e. I don't completely understand why it needs more timing, but it was something along the lines of because the shop used a Honda MAP sensor that can handle boost, and now the voltage scale is all off. He says the emanage will be constantly fighting with the stock ECU for timing and the emanage can only compensate +/- 15 deg of timing. He calls this setup risky at best. Overall the driving experience would seem to agree with what he says as some times when I hit the gas it feels very responsive and other times feels marginally better than my NA setup. The performance is inconsistent even within a 30 min drive. I know off boost performance was definitely better before the tune. When the power drops at 4800 rpm you can even hear the engine note change. At one point early during the dyno tuning there were foot-long flames shooting out my dump pipe because the timing was so backed off and AF so rich...
good to hear about the plugs.... and with the honda map added.... I can see why things might be a little crazy.
11:1 is very conservative.... usually I see 12:1 as a decently tuned A/F
I don't know what to say.... I'm just a little worried based upon the dyno results and what you've said so far.... It sure would be nice to get some pyrometer readings.
It would be nice to see the color your describing.... even if you post a small picture of the closest shade of red ( just a rectangle in photoshop) that would give me an idea.
You could get a decent pyrometer gauge/sensor off ebay for less than $150 ..... much cheaper than a new engine
2010 BMW 335D
1994 Opel Calibra 4X4 turbo ( C20LET 2.0L Turbo )
2002 Daewoo lanos
ubuyau: LOL no I didn't get the run with the flames on video, wish I did tho.
Chris: Yes EGT would be nice to know. The colour of red would be similar to a stove burner as it is just starting to glow red.... a dark deep red that doesn't emit much light. Its not like its glowing like a light bulb haha.
I really want to get the dyno video up just haven't had the time to edit and encode it.
Efrain A. wrote:
Chris havent you notice that the X20XEV family engines usually has more torque the hp when boosted even on NA? is to due to head desing.
Yeah mine N/A is making 10 more torque then hp at the wheels...which I really wasnt expecting.
