Sunbird hybrid

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:03 am

congrats, lets see a video

GsiTurbo · Post by **GsiTurbo** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:35 pm

The blue thingy with the gauge you refer to is the external fuel pressure regulator. Congrats on the startup!!!

decyphex · Post by **decyphex** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:54 am

alright... Welll.. I'm not getting idle! It will not idle, just cuts out. The MAP seems to be fine, the O2 seems to be fine. I'm still using the IAC from the daewoo. Should I be using the one from the sunbird (if it fits? The plugs are the same). I was also thinking it could be that little screw on the throttle body to adjust the idle, but then again it should still not cut out like it does, i think? I was using the daewoo injectors at first and then discovered it was running too rich because they are SFI injectors. So I switched to the sunbird injectors and it runs good now, just still no idle.

It sounds nice with those cams too.

decyphex · Post by **decyphex** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:53 pm

At this point, it was running real rich and there was no exhaust, just the manifold. The daewoo injectors were in it and supposedly they are SFI injectors so they pump out much more fuel. So that was my problem, I put the sunbird ones in and it fixed the richness. Now I just have to get it to idle.. It's either the IAC or the throttle plate idle screw.

decyphex · Post by **decyphex** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:06 am

Ok. problem.. The timing is correct. But my MAP reading for inches of vacuum is only 20 at idle and I'm pretty sure it should usually be about 28-30 inches. The cams I got are 260* duration and .410" lift. Is that a much bigger cam than what was in it before? They are supposed to be mild cams. I'm also not storing vacuum I dont think, because when the car has just been shut off, the HVAC controls don't switch back and forth between different vents like they used to. (when the key is on, but not running) I am using the sunbird MAP sensor. It doesn't seem to run very well either. Can anyone help me?

GsiTurbo · Post by **GsiTurbo** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:06 pm

20 in/Hg @idle is perfect. I dont see a problem here.

decyphex · Post by **decyphex** » Wed May 02, 2007 3:41 am

Then, what do you think the problem is? The sunbird ECM just can't handle it?

GsiTurbo · Post by **GsiTurbo** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:35 am

So how exactly is the motor controlled? Are you using stock sunbird ECU connected to the T20SED? Or are you using T20SED ECU connected to the motor through stock sunbird harness??

What are your fuel pressure specifications @idle? How many psi at idle and WOT? Have you tried to pull any codes?

Tom

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:37 am

I've been simply skimming the board lately due to lack of time..... just decided to see how you project is going and noticed a few questions you had.

So... your not idling.... well.... the T20SED IAC system has zero feedback.... so normally when you first start it up after powering up the ECU for the first time you have to go through an idle learn procedure.

Basicly the T20SED IAC is a stepper motor.... during the idle learn procedure the ECU will determine how many steps to go to make the car idle.

I don't know what the Sunbird uses for an idle air controller..... but I would have to think it's not a stepper motor.

I have my sunbird manual at work..... so I have no way of seeing how the system is setup.

Turning the screw will allow you to get a base idle.... which is to say it will keep the engine running but you really need a correctly operating IAC.

Basicly the stepper motor will move the IAC valve in and out depending on a number of factors..... when the car is warm it will idle at a way lower number than when cold.

As such you might get it to idle reasonably well at startup but while your driving around you might find that the engine will die as you come up to a set of lights. (which obviously is a bad thing )

I will try and look into the IAC setup for the Sunbird tommorow.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:46 am

decyphex wrote:Hey guys, hopefully someone still reads this that can help me. Since I'll be using the stock sunbird ECM on the T20SED for now, is it a bad idea to delete the EGR or should it be fine?

Should be fine without the EGR.... most of the aftermarket manifolds block it off

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:00 am

GsiTurbo wrote:So how exactly is the motor controlled? Are you using stock sunbird ECU connected to the T20SED? Or are you using T20SED ECU connected to the motor through stock sunbird harness??

Tom.....I could be wrong... but I think he's trying to run the T20SED off the Sunbird ECU / Wiring Harness.

Given he had a newer sunbird with the DIS pack, and they used the same reluctor wheel..... he's fine there.

I have to think that there might be a problem with the fact that the old sunbird engine didn't use the same style of camshaft sensor.... so it's one of those 50/50 deals where it might be firing on the right sequence one time and not another.

I assume that the adapter plate that goes onto the place where the distributor use to be was considered the "cam sensor" but I don't know exactly how it operates.

It's possible that the spark timing might be off a bit.

Going back to the stock injectors was also a good idea.

Other than the IAC system and the ignition system I don't see any other problems as to why he can't run the T20SED off the sunbird ECU..... It's not going to run all that great because the air/fuel calculations will be slightly off due to the fact that the 16V flows better than the 8V

decyphex · Post by **decyphex** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:35 am

The sunbird didn;t have a cam sensor at all. Just a crank sensor.. The cam sensor is deleted.

If the crank sensor was bad, it would not run, right?

I also noticed that there was a one way check valve on the vacuum lines that went to the sunbirds vacuum ball and i think the HVAC controls. I am not using a one way check valve now.. Could that be my issue?

Oh.. and it doesn't feel powerful AT ALL. It will get to a high RPM going down the road, but it feels like the transmission is not receiving any of that or something?

Would you guys recommend I go get a daewoo nubira ECM and use it? Would it plug right in or would I be splicing and stuff?

I was thinking either that, the way pontiacjeff did it with a sunbird turbo ECM, or getting an aftermarket engine management.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Wed May 02, 2007 11:39 pm

I was somewhat confused... for some reason I thought the Sunbird MPFI was sequential.... but it's not.... so the cam sensor is not needed and the ignition would simply fire on each rotation of the crank.

If the crank sensor was damaged... it would not run at all.

I have the Sunbird Manual in front of me and it does show a stepper motor for the IAC control.

I suggest you remove the IAC stepper motor and check it's position.

There is a procedure in the manual which tells you to give the Sunbird ECU a particular command to fully seat the IAC pintle and readjust upon startup.

Basicly..... the subird ECU also has some sort of "idle learn procedure"

It's also possible that the wires are slightly different.... the stepper motor is made up of two coils ( two wires for each coil )

So if the subird's IAC stepper motor has a different configuration than that of the Nubira IAC then the Sunbird ECU would be unable to move the motor and give you a proper idle speed.

I only have a 1987 manual.... but I'm going to assume that the MPFI harness for the turbo is the same as the newer naturally aspirated motors.

Light green/black and light green/white are one pair of wires for one coil on the stepper motor
Ligth blue/black and light blue/white are the other pair of wires for the other coil on the stepper motor

I will try and see if that will work with the Nubira IAC stepper motor.

Worst case scenario is that you clip the wires and change their position on the connector.

Ideally it would be a good idea to follow the Sunbird IAC reset procedure...... I have to go right now and I don't have much time.... so it might take me a couple of days to get back to you.

Chris

decyphex · Post by **decyphex** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:57 am

well.. the daewoo IAC is back in it for right now, but the sunbird IAC did fit in there. I just had to turn it so the plug opening was facing upward and it was the same. I guess I have to try this idle relearn procedure, but I still don't know if everything is right or not. Because it really feels like I have no power at all. Could that be the sunbird ECM holding it back? Not adjusting properly? If I had a sunbird turbo ECM and distributor, it would adjust on its own pretty well, wouldn't it? Because it's turbo?

Oh.. and the only codes I have gotten, are a few 33's (MAP) and a 13 (02 not switching), but the 13 came up once and never again, and the 33 only came on when I didn't have a plug in the intake manifold where the daewoo MAP used to be and it came on once after that when I was going down the road, finally reaching 60 mph.

Post by **Efratech** » Thu May 03, 2007 4:55 am

dont u think the lack of power has something to do with the timing?