Lanos will not run after rebuild from broken timing belt

[daewoomofo]

ok, i stand corrected. i know you have checked the fireing order, but give switching it around a shot. good luck, keep us posted.

[gb2615]

Hi daewoomofo (again)

It is nice to see I am thinking along the same lines with my own testing.

I tried swopping 1 and 4 leads with 2 and 3 on the coil a few days back. I got some nice back firing.
I took this to mean that they were connected in their correct positions. This is especially true for this engine type since the wasted spark method would mean that even if only 2 were incorrectly positioned then some back firing would occur as they fire sparking is occuring on both the compression and exhaust strokes. This is rather a neat self checking process when you think about it.

Any thoughts on what typical cranking rpm would be?

[daewoomofo]

sorry, my woo has been parked for 2 months, (gotta love low ass cars and snow on the ground) so i cant remember what it is. but i would think its close to 1500 rpm

[Spider]

Thanks Spider for the research you have done on this issue.

Thanks to this great site, some weeks ago I was able to download (what I consider to be) a complete workshop manual for my 1997 Lanos 1.6LT DOHC 5spd manual. I wish I had had it available when I took the engine apart, it would have just made life a little easier and quicker. Much of my diagnosis I have taken by following processes outlined in this manual plus other tips and some past experience with other cars.

As indicated earlier (and as you have stated), the cyclinders are numbered 1-2-3-4 but this is viewed standing infront of the car looking towards the firewall.
The firing order is 1-3-4-2 but the split coil and wasted spark ignition method means you can hook 1 and 4 cylinder to either connection of 1 and 4 on the coil and similar for 2 and 3 cylinder to either the 2 and 3 coil connections. The cylinder numbering is quite clear on the coil. I have checked this several times after reading other posts on this site.


I haven't been able to re-check and record every voltage again but here are some I have checked again tonight. I am using a good digital voltmeter and the car battery is both new and fully charged. I have already destroyed one battery from all the cranking.

Measured Voltages
CTS at ECM 2.199 V coolant temp is approx 20C (70F) degrees
TPS at ECM 0.638 V at idle 4.555 at full throttle

I am listing the voltages measured at the ECM since this must be what the electronics would be seeing and reacting to. I will list more voltages when I can get more time to measure and post here.

The Crankshaft Position Sensor connector is clean and tight. There is no camshaft sensor on this model engine. It uses the output of the CPS and a process called EST - Electronic Spark Timing to give the correct advance. I am going to try to go to a car wreckers on the weekend and get another coil if possible. I will try this.

I also intend to pull the intake manifold off again and have another look around but this will take time and so will have to be on the weekend.

Still happy to look at other things if people suggest something.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
gb2615,

I have a hard time thinking that a coil would go bad while you were repairing your engine.
But I guess anything is possible.

Someone in the UK a while back discovered that the Lanos he had did have a camshaft position sensor but it was called something else.
I know this is vague and will try and find that thread. Maybe someone here will remember the details?

Have you checked the primary (battery) voltage at the power line to the coil/s connection yet? Needs to be 12.5 VDC at least.

Don't know how mechanics reference "Right and Left" in your part of the world?
But here in the USA?
Right=the right side of the vehicle as viewed from the drivers seat.
Left= the left side of the vehicle as viewed from the drivers seat.
Having this as a 'standard' makes communication easier.
Trivia :
Western saddle horseback riders as well as motorcycle riders and truck drivers call the left side the "on side" and the right side the "off side"

I have edited my prior post regarding cylinder numbering.

Hope you discover the problem soon.

[Spider]

http://www.daewootech.com/forum/viewtop ... sc&start=0

[gb2615]

Thanks Spider.
I really appreciate the effort you have made in tracking down the sensor information.

I haven't been able to check the input voltage for the coil at the connector yet but I will feedback information when this is done.

I was aware from reading many posts on this forum about the confusion that arises of describing items in terms of left or right.
Being a global forum, there is terrific input from contributors from all over the world and I have tried to use information that I hope is universal e.g.
"viewed standing infront of the car looking towards the firewall".
As you would be aware, in Australia the standard cars are all righthand drive. This doesn't make a lot of difference to the engine and transmission layouts but has a big impact on in cabin, dash and driving control layouts.

For instance, even though I have a Lanos repair manual, the cabin wiring guide is based on left hand drive cars and it simply states "Right Hand Drive similar".
I have searched all the places indicated for a left hand drive lanos and all the variations I can think of, I still haven't been able to find the common earth for the ECM. So if you know where this might be in a righthand drive lanos, please let me know.

[Turtle_Wax]

Just a thought, but make sure all the multiplugs are properly connected behind the left hand side kick panel (next to the fuses) One of them came lose on me once and the car failed to start. Probably isn't that but seen as you've tried everything else it's worth a go.

Also, here in the uk the cam sensor was only fitted to the newer Lanos from 2002 (the ones with the redesigned rear lights) just before the model was discontinued.

[gb2615]

Hi All

Sorry I have been so silent for the last week, I got called out of town urgently for work and have only been able to get back to the car yesterday.

BUT THE NEWS IS ALL GOOD.

Firstly, can I say thanks to everyone that has offered me advice and perservence, it has really paid off. While away and having time to reflect on all the testing I have done, I realised that if all the testing is saying the car should work, then the only possible cause of failure would be a fundamental mechanical problem. But what? I thought about the process of the engine assembly and the rechecks I had done on the timing belt and timing markings and it dawned on me ....
I had never rechecked the camshafts.
Sure enough (and this is where I admit I am an IDIOT - BIG TIME!!!!!!) when I took the timebelt cover off and checked the camshafts, I had put the exhaust camshaft in the intake side and the intake in the exhaust side.

HOW COULD I BE SO STUPID. I had stripped the timing belt off twice since the original rebuild and never even glanced at the markings on the camshaft cogs. I have assumed over the past weeks that I thought I had assembled the engine in the reverse order of dismantling it. Obviously, somehow, I had managed to place the camshafts in their opposite positions.

So within about 2 hours of finding this, I have dismantled and re-assembled the whole camshaft assemblies and got the car all back together except for the spark plugs. Did the standard procedure of cranking to let the oil pressure come up. Installed the spark plugs. Gathered my family around me to mark the momentus occasion and turned on the ignition.

IT STARTED FIRST TIME.

Hooray! Sure there was a bit of a strong smell as all the petrol in the exhaust system burnt off but it was an awesome, awesome sound. After the 15 minute run in, I have done an oil change and now it purring like a kitten. Just amazing! These Daewoos can even survive me.

So, can I again say a really big thankyou to everyone that kept saying go back and check it all over again, even when I said how carefull I had been with the dis-assembly and the re-assembly. I think Pir0 said it best when you said "I bet it is something really dicky!" Well it was something dicky, the nut at the end of the spanner.

I have learnt an incredible amount about the Daewoo during this exercise and will try and contribute some of this knowledge to others.

I hope this post offers some help to another DIYer. Now I am off to have well deserved beverage.

[daewoomofo]

hey your not an idiot, every one makes mistakes, thats why they put erasers on pencils. glad you got it running.

[Pir0]

Glad you got it m8, and don't worry, you done everything properly, that was just an extremely easy mistake to make lol. Kinda funny how everyone named everything EXCEPT the cams.

Anyway, congrats man, and besta luck with it in the days, weeks, months or maybe years to come. Hopefully years!

[Spider]

gb2615, happy to hear your up and running and discovered the problem.

And Piro?...Not being one to "pat myself on the back" ?
But,
I guess you missed this, from my post to this thread on the 19th of February:

"The timing is very critical, all marks must be in perfect alignment.
Cam position and crankshaft pulley marks and lower cover (tin) marks too."

Yes, It is all good !

[daewoomofo]

gb2615, happy to hear your up and running and discovered the problem.

And Piro?...Not being one to "pat myself on the back" ?
But,
I guess you missed this, from my post to this thread on the 19th of February:

"The timing is very critical, all marks must be in perfect alignment.
Cam position and crankshaft pulley marks and lower cover (tin) marks too."

Yes, It is all good !

some one is awfull full of their self.......lol jk

[Pir0]

I thought you meant the position of the cam, as in the position of the pulley [timing marks].

But i see now ya didnt.


Looks like you do get a pat on the back afterall :P

[gb2615]

Hi Spider

I must admit, I read your comments in a similiar way to PirO.

You are the MAN!

Thanks for the update. I will always read your comments with much greater attention to detail in the future.

The woo has a few kms under the belt since the fix and it has never sounded so good. Fixing things with your own hands is a very, very rewarding business. It is a shame so few of the younger rev heads around don't think anyone but a mechanic can touch a modern engine. It is true they have a few more bits on them than in the past but in the end, the mechanicals are pretty much the same.

[BosnianLanos]

LoL, when I replaced the head gasket in my green Lanos this summer, I went ahead and replaced the valve seals, which were shot.

I did the EXACT same thing you did. I reversed the cam gears. The shafts themselves were OK, but the gears were reversed. It seems poor logic to make either gear fit either shaft, but thats what we got.

I reversed them and she fired up the first time. The timing is off, but that'll be fixed in a couple of months, for now, she lies in wait.

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, that would've been my first guess.

So don't feel so bad!